Wednesday, April 13, 2005

complicated, reality, object

Hi Shiva,
Its nice to see a comment on the blog, I'll try to reply with all my sincerity.

You Wrote:
Hello Ashok. Thanks for your Post, I enjoyed reading it. I have a few comments: First of all it doesn't help to substitute the word I (what I am?) through the word "reality". So asking What am I? and giving the answer: I am a reality, makes things only more complicate. This is actually the first thing one can learn in the study of philosophy: never substitute complicate concepts by even more complicate ones. Because this will only bring confusion.
My second comment is then of course: What do you mean by Reality? (Please give a short answer.)
My third comment (which is actually a question): Where is the difference between this, that, it - and I? Because as soon as you think of yourself as I you will be in the trap of looking at yourself as an object - though everyone of us is so much more than that. We are neither this nor that nor I nor reality. We are, to say it in a Latin _expression: "ineffabile" - that's what I believe.
Shiva (Delhi)

So you disagree, thats ok. I respect that.

You see this is my worldview and I am very comfortable with it and till the time I come across something better I guess I'll stick to it.

As a reply to your comments I just have the following to say:

What is complicate? it is a word one uses when one does not understand something or finds something difficult or believes that it can not be understood. Example "life is complicated" or "This physics problem is complicated". When something is understood or believed that it can be understood then it is neither complicated or difficult.

To me the question 'What I am' is neither complicated or difficult as I am aware of myself, which is why I call myself 'I', I have no doubts about my being, so 'I' know 'I am' but 'what am I' well that is 'what I am' trying to find.

Secondly, What is reality? Reality is something whose existence or being, is independent of observers consciousness.
Example a stone : whether I am aware of it or not, it exists and will keep on existing whether or not I become aware of it, so it is a reality, similarly whether I am aware of myself or not I still exist, therefore I am a Reality.

I hope that was short enough

For me 'I' or 'Reality' both are very simple and easy to understand, no confusion there atleast for me, but if you have confusion then you will have to find your own answers.

So you see no difference between It, this, that or 'I' and you think I cannot be studied objectively, thats fine many great philosphers have had a similar view. I am personally of the view that these are different things and can easily be understood, thats what the whole article was about.

I would like to add here what I think an object is - an object is that reality which is limited physically and of specific size and the size is inclusive of its zone of influence. Example: this earth is an object, Sun, plants, animals, you, I etc. Space is not an object as it is not limited in size or its zone of influence.

Two questions for you.
Why is looking at oneself as 'I' a trap?? and I think you need to explain what you mean by object and how are we more then a object?

Mind you these are my views, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, only sharing my views on the some issues and invite you to do the same.

Ashok

1 comment:

Anonymous said...

Hi Ashok. First of all let me tell u that I am not trying to change anyone’s worldview. I agree with u that this discourse can only be about exchanging views, opinions, experiences. And give us mutual inspiration.

Secondly: Why did I bring up the adjective “complicated”? See: You are posting your thoughts on a blog, so obviously you are eager to reach a certain audience. So: if you would pen down all your thoughts just for you, there would be nothing to comment. But as you want to reach other people (at least I assume you do), I wanted to give you the feedback, that with your way of describing your worldview you will have lots of difficulties to reach someone. Because you ask a question, and your answer is not about clarifying this question, but it brings in even more questions. So all I wanted to point out is: Why do you make it so difficult for us as audience to follow? If you have to say simple things which can be understood easily, then communicate them in a simple way so that anyone can understand. I agree: The question “what am I?” is not at all complicated, but you gave a very complicated answer to this simple question. I am glad that for you reality and I are easy to understand. If that is so, please explain them in a way that they can be easily understood by anyone else as well. That is all I would suggest.

Now to the question of reality: Of course we assume that a stone which no one is aware of is still existing. But how does an existence of which no one is aware, matter?

Why is looking at myself as I a trap? As far as I could understand your writing you said that looking at ourselves as it, that are limiting views. Is that right? So: Looking at ourselves as I would be the right thing to do. Would mean: looking at ourselves how we really are. So all I am saying is: The very attempt to make out WHAT WE REALLY ARE is a trap, because we will believe in something fixed, static – we would look at ourselves as “this and that I” so to say. So we would reduce our subjectivity to the status of an object. So only way to find our true self is keep on looking for it without ever trying to fix or name it. Once we do that, it is not US any more.
Am I clear? One would really have to put much more time and thinking on this whole topic. But better a few thoughts than no thoughts. And anyway we are all on our way to understand the world and ourselves and that’s a very long way, I guess.


Shiva