Things to remember

Life is consequence of choices one makes.

All change is for stability.

Growth and decay are the only two states in life. If one is not in growth then, one is in a state of decay. At all time the choice is available to us to choose growth or decay.

All IS, is now. past is always memory, future at best conjecture, present reality.

Mutual fulfillment is the purpose of all relationships

All thoughts, ideas, plans which are not put to action are mere fantasies

Understanding is the basis of joyfull living, understanding comes through observation & evaluation.

In absence of understanding, assumptions become the basis of living, such living is joyless. When one becomes aware of joylessness then one needs to trace(observe) and evaluate the underlying assumptions.

Humans are Seekers, when aware they seek understanding for joyfull living, otherwise they either seek attention or entertainment, both of which are bottomless pits.

Acceptence and Agreement

I have observed that accepting a person is different from agreeing with that person. Acceptance is of the person and agreement/disagreement is of thoughts. A lot of times in relationships when one disagrees with someone then that person often takes this disagreement as non-acceptance (rejection). Leading to a feeling of unease or even sometimes a feeling of hostility.

Also at times if one agrees with something someone is expressing then that is generally taken as acceptance of that person by the person who has been agreed with.

I have discovered that if one is able to maintain a distinction between Acceptance and Agreement and also keeps indicating this difference in relationships then life becomes a lot easier.

Love ??? - Comment Reply

jade said...

what do u mean by.. the expression of love has not got communicated?

Communication between two people is when one person successfully conveys what is being felt to another person, and the other person is able understand what is communicated and acknowledges the communication, but might or might not reciprocate.

In case of non communication their are several scenarios

1. Person wanting to convey(communicator) is not clear (confused/unsure) of what is being felt. Communicator is misinterpreting own feelings (e.g - Confusing sympathy, Caring or trust for Love )
   
2. Communicators behavior (speech and acts) is insufficient to convey what is being felt.
3. The person to at whom the communication is aimed at (Listener) is not interested or distracted at that moment.
4. The listener mis-reads the behavior used for communication by the communicator (e.g. - Caring at times can be interpreted as interfering).
   
5. The Listener is unprepared to accept or respond(either way) to that particular feeling

These are the various scenarios of mis-communication.

New comment on Love??

alright i agree with...lets say around 95% of what is written. Why i didnt get the 5 is something i assume u can realise since the reasons are in the article itself. What i would like to see is what you think of these observations:

I am of the opinion that love is not absolute. Every thought is manifested into an action and in the process the thought can lose its real significance. Love is different for different people and there is no absolute entity in this universe. Everything is relative as einstein said.

The second observation i make is that, the moment 'how love is manifested into actions' becomes constant, love becomes stagnant and fades out. If i was to be crass i would say it becomes boring. In other words, there is no scope for perfection of self. Not that monotony does not have a lesson in itself but it teaches in the negative while change is positive.

Would like to see a reply...;)

- SS

Thanks for your comment.
Interesting observations, since you have desired to know my opinion, I'll share my views with you. I have highlighted the various points you have made which I am going to address.

Before I start, I would like to make one thing clear. I accept your views, and due to that respect your viewpoint, though I do not agree with what you say. I hope you understand the difference in accepting even though one might disagree.

1. Love is not absolute: In my opinion love, trust, respect, care, all these are universal as well as absolute. Thats why any two or more people on this planet can discover any of these feeling between them, irrespective of their background, upbringing, social, financial, physical, psychological, emotional or spiritual status. Secondly, because of this quality of universality and absoluteness, every person on this planet is seeking these realities, which only exist in a relationship. Love has been sought in all times and all places, by humans of all age, sex, creed, caste, colour, race, If it was not absolute then how come the desire for it exists in every human being past or present. We all recognize the absence of love in our lives, and when love happens we recognize that too. If love was relative, then how would two people know that what they are feeling for each other is love. Yes there are times when mistakes feelings like attraction, lust, sympathy, care for love. But the problem is in the wrong identification, not in love itself. To correctly identify love, trust, respect and care one needs to understand them. Correct understanding leads to correct identification of love, trust, respect and care.
   
   
2. Every thought is manifested into an action: Not all thoughts are manifested into actions. What all I think, less than that I speak and even less than that am I able to put into action. This is self evident. You can observe it in yourself and verify it.
   
   
3. in the process the thought can lose its real significance: The definition of a human being according to me is - that who thinks, plans, imagines, visualizes, desires and then tries to act upon these thoughts, plans, imaginations, visualizations, desires and in this whole process seeks happiness. No significance is lost in putting thoughts into action, only one thing happens, either we are happy with the result or we are unhappy.
   
   
4. Love is different for different people and there is no absolute entity in this universe: Both these issues have been addressed in the first point.
   
   
5. love becomes stagnant and fades out and it becomes boring: When someone wrongly identifies love, then frustration, irritation, anger, stagnation, boredom happen. Lot of times when two people are in relationship under the mistaken premise that they are in love, then soon nature takes it course and makes sure that both realize that what they feel is not love. If two people have understood love and identified it on that basis then there is just mutual joy :)
   
   
6. there is no scope for perfection of self: What is perfection in a human? If we look around us everything is working in perfection, the Sun rises everyday, the mango seed grows into a mango tree, the monsoons come every year. Even all the so called natural disasters obey law of nature, don't they? If they do, then there exist laws in nature. Then by this logic there must be some laws that govern humans too in nature. Lets call these Natural Design for humans. IF humans live by this natural design then there is surety of continuous happiness and long lasting & loving relationships, otherwise not. If living by natural design is perfection then it does exist, even in humans.
   
   
7. change is positive: All change in nature is for stability. For example if something falls it becomes more stable, in that particular aspect of falling. This can be seen in everything besides humans. Humans are the only beings in nature who can cause a change for instability, current development model is the best example for it, but one could call it a political view, so lets take another example. In a relationship humans cheat, lie, betray and bring about a change, this change makes the relationship much more unstable, therefore such relationships are bound to break. When humans start living by the natural design then only do they get the ability to make changes that are for stability. Therefore to address your point that all change is positive, well that is so but only in processes/objects/reality besides human beings. In human beings before they are able to understand and identify there Natural Human Design all mind initiated changes are negative, and after identifying natural human design all changes including mind initiated are positive.
   

I hope this helps.

This is just an attempt of sharing my viewpoint, I have no intention of criticizing anyone.

Choice

“Choice, the problem is choice” __ Neo(Matrix Reloaded)

What defines a human being? Or should I ask what is that differentiates humans? Some might say our colour/creed/sex/race/culture/intelligence/physical strength ……. The list is endless. To me the only difference I see in humans is the choices they make. Rest all is the same.

The choices one makes defines what you eventually are. As I love to say “Life is a consequence of choices one makes”.

Really!!? Is that true? Does it make any sense? What do you think?

Let me try and explain my view point.

What is freedom?

Freedom as defined in Wikipedia: refers, in a very general sense, to the state of being free (i.e. unrestricted, unconfined or unfettered). Also, liberation from restraint or from the power of another: independence. In short, freedom is the power to act and the cause which advances this power.

Does that make any sense?

Yes it does if you add the fact the ‘being free’ basically means being “free to choose”. ‘Liberation from restraint’ means no external restraints on your power to choose.

In fact one can define most of the human values on the basis of ‘power of choice’ example:

Care: Your ability to convey a feeling of freedom to your partner by which he/she knows that you facilitate their freedom of choice.

Trust: Your ability to convey a feeling of freedom to your partner by which he/she is assured that their power of choice will be considered equal to your own power of choice and accorded same freedom.

I hope the above examples communicate the importance I give to ‘Power of choice’ in relationships.

Choice determines the kind of person one becomes, the kind of personality one develops, the kind of life one leads and the kind of human being one turns out to be.

A lot of my friends have pointed out that I should include more examples to explain my viewpoints but currently ‘I choose’ to do without examples because I feel that what I am trying to communicate is getting done without examples. See how this choice determines my personality/expression/impression on others.

So if it is all about choice then why is their so much conflict/diversity/mismatch in the way human families/communities/societies have developed?

The reason I can see is the, ‘basis of choice’ one uses. Currently there are only three basis on which we base our choices Likes/Dislikes, Healthy/unhealthy & gain/loss. These three parameters are the only parameters which are consistently used as basis for exercising ones choice.

Examples:
Choosing a friend – do I LIKE him/her or not? (Likes/Dislikes)
Choosing when to marry – Am I Financially comfortable or not(gain/loss)
Choosing what to eat – I need to avoid fat rich foods (healthy/unhealthy)
Choosing what not to eat - This smells of coconut oil, I can’t eat this (Likes/Dislikes)
Choosing where to live – Yes the rent of this apartment is suitable for me (gain/loss)
Choosing a lifestyle – I need to join a Gym (healthy/unhealthy)

Interestingly the choices based upon these three criteria that we use currently, vary vastly from person to person, what I like/dislike you might not like/dislike, what I find healthy/unhealthy you might not find suitable for you, what I consider as gain you might consider as loss for your self.

So what? You may ask.

We as humans have this tendency to find similarities or should I say ‘similar grounds’ for interactions, this is a natural need in us and comes from the fact of us being humans. Now if one is seeking similarity the most obvious thing where on seeks similarity is in ‘Choices’.

I am sure you have noticed this.

This is where the problem lies, since our choices are based on only three criteria (Likes/Dislikes, Healthy/unhealthy & gain/loss), we end up trying to seek similarity in areas where similarity is very much impossible.

Does that mean we have an inherent flaw?

NO not at all.

We do make friends, fall in love, etc don’t we? (though we are not able to sustain these relationships ????)

How does that happen?

Yes the answer lies in there, if one examines the choices one makes inherently when feeling a strong bond with someone and also when one is feeling negative about someone, one can find a clue to the problem.

So what do you think?

Love??

A recent comment

When we tell each other 'I love you' we try to remind each other, not sure whether we do or don't. The true respect to anyone is telling them that you do but I realize that there is an extent to it. When you care about someone , communicating that you and they share that feeling is important , Love is something more than that. It can only be experienced by knowing a person, not by saying it- and that takes a lifetime. We punish people by using it otherwise. We get caught up and we can't set be free.There is friendship and there is caring, all are initiatives to love. Love is the conclusion not the beginning.

Annonymous

'I love you' very important words used differently by people all across the globe, so obviously holds diffrent meanings to different people. Your obsevations are good especially the distinction between love, friendship and caring.

For me 'I love you' has a slightly different meaning. When I say these words to someone it means I have accepted that person in a relationship and I am feeling good in that relationship, this relationship could be of friendship or of life partnership or even a blood relationship. Thats the reason I use these words with my blood relations too or with my friends. Love to me the inherent emotion in all humans, we all need love, we all recognize love but we don't really know how to live in love continuously. What takes place between a child and parent is also love and what takes place between man-woman is also love. The feeling is the same, that of intimacy and closeness, the expression of this feeling differs from relationship to realationship.

So in other words for me love is the starting point of all relationships. When the relationships don't work out then it is not that love has ended, it is rather the expression of love which has not got communicated. And we being very conditioned in our response, when love is not communicated then we usually retaliate by either hurting, or ignoring our partner, which is just our defence mechanism working.

Ashok

Sharing observations

Hi Shiva,

Apologies for the delayed reply. My reply is in black font.

Hi Ashok.
First of all let me tell u that I am not trying to change anyone’s worldview. I agree with u that this discourse can only be about exchanging views, opinions, experiences. And give us mutual inspiration.

Secondly: Why did I bring up the adjective “complicated”? See: You are posting your thoughts on a blog, so obviously you are eager to reach a certain audience. So: if you would pen down all your thoughts just for you, there would be nothing to comment. But as you want to reach other people (at least I assume you do), I wanted to give you the feedback, that with your way of describing your worldview you will have lots of difficulties to reach someone.

Feedback is one of the main objectives of this blog, and you being one the only one posting comments in recent times, I do appreciate your interest. but I need to clarify something, my postings are based on my observations of myself, my relationships and life, when I am writing something it is only after I am convinced that this is how I see that issue, these observations are my way of expressing my thoughts to other people. I am not looking for people to agree or disagree with me, I just want them to know this is how I see the issues I am writing about, I don't want you or anyone else to see it in the way I do. I want you and others to share with me what you have understood, what you have observed just like I am trying to do.

The reason for this is that I look at every human as an independent observer with full capabilities and I have complete confidence in each and every humans ability to observe what they want to observe. I know that if my observations of reality are complete then I will find someone else too who would have similar observations on the same issue. If my observations are incomplete then maybe your observations or someone else's observation might help me in completing my observations on the issue. So I would like you to post your observations on 'I' how do you see it.

Because you ask a question, and your answer is not about clarifying this question, but it brings in even more questions. So all I wanted to point out is: Why do you make it so difficult for us as audience to follow? If you have to say simple things which can be understood easily, then communicate them in a simple way so that anyone can understand. I agree: The question “what am I?” is not at all complicated, but you gave a very complicated answer to this simple question. I am glad that for you reality and I are easy to understand. If that is so, please explain them in a way that they can be easily understood by anyone else as well. That is all I would suggest.

I is that 'unit' which is capable of observation, understanding, expressing and experiencing. Reality I had defined in my last post 'Reality is something whose existence or being, is independent of observers consciousness.'

Now to the question of reality: Of course we assume that a stone which no one is aware of is still existing. But how does an existence of which no one is aware, matter?

There are lot of things around us of which we are not aware, all these things along with the ones we are aware of make a very balanced and coexisting universe that we see around us. We might be aware of it or not that is a different matter, infact according to me the purpose of life is a journey of awareness of all that is around us. So atleast to me that stone matters.

Why is looking at myself as I a trap? As far as I could understand your writing you said that looking at ourselves as it, that are limiting views. Is that right? So: Looking at ourselves as I would be the right thing to do. Would mean: looking at ourselves how we really are. So all I am saying is: The very attempt to make out WHAT WE REALLY ARE is a trap, because we will believe in something fixed, static – we would look at ourselves as “this and that I” so to say. So we would reduce our subjectivity to the status of an object. So only way to find our true self is keep on looking for it without ever trying to fix or name it. Once we do that, it is not US any more.

When I see myself I can see 'this', 'that', 'it' and 'I' in myself, since the moment I started seeing these I have found myself more aware of myself, at no times have I felt trapped or limited. I can observe myself and I understand most of what I observe in myself, whether it is subjective or objective I don't really care as I know no other way of being except for being a constant observer of self and world.

Am I clear? One would really have to put much more time and thinking on this whole topic. But better a few thoughts than no thoughts. And anyway we are all on our way to understand the world and ourselves and that’s a very long way, I guess.


Shiva

I hope this helps you understand what I am trying to say.
Ashok

complicated, reality, object

Hi Shiva,
Its nice to see a comment on the blog, I'll try to reply with all my sincerity.

You Wrote:
Hello Ashok. Thanks for your Post, I enjoyed reading it. I have a few comments: First of all it doesn't help to substitute the word I (what I am?) through the word "reality". So asking What am I? and giving the answer: I am a reality, makes things only more complicate. This is actually the first thing one can learn in the study of philosophy: never substitute complicate concepts by even more complicate ones. Because this will only bring confusion.
My second comment is then of course: What do you mean by Reality? (Please give a short answer.)
My third comment (which is actually a question): Where is the difference between this, that, it - and I? Because as soon as you think of yourself as I you will be in the trap of looking at yourself as an object - though everyone of us is so much more than that. We are neither this nor that nor I nor reality. We are, to say it in a Latin _expression: "ineffabile" - that's what I believe.
Shiva (Delhi)

So you disagree, thats ok. I respect that.

You see this is my worldview and I am very comfortable with it and till the time I come across something better I guess I'll stick to it.

As a reply to your comments I just have the following to say:

What is complicate? it is a word one uses when one does not understand something or finds something difficult or believes that it can not be understood. Example "life is complicated" or "This physics problem is complicated". When something is understood or believed that it can be understood then it is neither complicated or difficult.

To me the question 'What I am' is neither complicated or difficult as I am aware of myself, which is why I call myself 'I', I have no doubts about my being, so 'I' know 'I am' but 'what am I' well that is 'what I am' trying to find.

Secondly, What is reality? Reality is something whose existence or being, is independent of observers consciousness.
Example a stone : whether I am aware of it or not, it exists and will keep on existing whether or not I become aware of it, so it is a reality, similarly whether I am aware of myself or not I still exist, therefore I am a Reality.

I hope that was short enough

For me 'I' or 'Reality' both are very simple and easy to understand, no confusion there atleast for me, but if you have confusion then you will have to find your own answers.

So you see no difference between It, this, that or 'I' and you think I cannot be studied objectively, thats fine many great philosphers have had a similar view. I am personally of the view that these are different things and can easily be understood, thats what the whole article was about.

I would like to add here what I think an object is - an object is that reality which is limited physically and of specific size and the size is inclusive of its zone of influence. Example: this earth is an object, Sun, plants, animals, you, I etc. Space is not an object as it is not limited in size or its zone of influence.

Two questions for you.
Why is looking at oneself as 'I' a trap?? and I think you need to explain what you mean by object and how are we more then a object?

Mind you these are my views, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, only sharing my views on the some issues and invite you to do the same.

Ashok

Who am I – It, This or, That

‘The Game mind plays’

Yesterday I was thinking what am I? Following is the answer I got.

I am a reality.

A reality which is an integral part of the existence.

The problem is that ‘I’ don’t realize this reality, instead I believe that I am ‘It’. Attributing some qualities, some habits, some abilities to myself, or should I say I like to think of myself as ‘It’. This ‘It’ is not the real me but what I think what I am.

When I interact with someone I like to project myself in a certain way which I call ‘This’, ‘This’ is what I keep trying to show everybody. But this ‘This’ is just a subset of ‘It’. That is I try to project only a certain part of what I think I am, all this is done only for my convenience in the interaction. With different people and in different circumstances I am a different ‘This’.

Now since I think I am ‘It’ and try to show others that I am ‘This’, this gives me certain characteristics which are visible to others, of which I am aware of some and unaware of some. In different circumstances and with different people I am a different ‘This’. All the time thinking that people will soon start seeing me as ‘This’, also smug with the fact that no one will ever know that I am ‘It’.

What happens is something else.

When I see people I them as ‘That’, this ‘That’ is based on how I have read them, my readings are based upon their characteristic behavior which is distinctly different from their projected self (‘This’).

Now this is exactly how you see me, since there is one thing in common in You and I, it is the ability, need and the method to see others.

You see me as ‘That’ which is based on the characteristics you see in me, some of these are from (my) ‘This’ some are there because of my essentially being an ‘I’(Human) and others are because this is how you see me. Yes you do give me some characteristics which come from the way you see me or want to see me. So in the end ‘That’ you see is a mix of lot of stuff which is mostly imaginary some of this imaginary stuff is in you and some of it is in me.

With this kind of state we interact, no wonder most of the times our interactions are unfulfilling.

In this mess of ‘It’, ‘This’ and ‘That’ the ‘I’ gets lost, and it will keep getting lost till I wake up and re-look at myself and so do You.

Relationships, Body & I

I had posted this piece on another blog of mine but it is relevent here too.

Relationships – my viewpoint

What is a relationship?
Its any exchange between two people based on mutual recognition with the aim of mutual happiness.

Mutual Recognition: Recognizing each other in some capacity like parent, child, sibling, spouse, friend, co-worker, lover etc.

Mutual happiness: The intent is to interact in such a way so that both people involved experience joy in it.

Even though aim for mutual happiness is always there but due to various reasons it is seldom achieved, or should I say it is not achieved consistently.

What kinds of exchanges take place in a relationship?
All interactions between people have mental and physical aspects.

When I see myself then following is how I see these two aspects in myself:

1. I am a human


2. My humanness has two components physical mental (conscious)


3. They are two separate identities in nature


4. My humanness is the expression of co-existence of both these identities


5. My physical identity is my body


6. My conscious identity is the part where following processes take place
• Feelings
• Thinking (analysis comparision)
• Imagination (memory, visualization, planning, evaluation)
• Understanding
• Experiencing
7. This conscious part is what I call ‘I’
8. I address the body as ‘My Body’

My consciousness is different from physical body in the following manner:

1. I am self aware - My body is not self aware
2. I seek happiness - Body requires nurturing, maintenance, multiplication & protection
3. My requirements are continuous - My body's requirements are periodic
4. My requirements are not circumstances based - Bodies requirements are circumstances based
5. My requirements cannot be quantified - Bodies requirements are very much quantified
6. My target is to be in continuous state of happiness - Bodies target is growth and multiplication
7. I am not effected by physical-chemical changes in my environment - My body is effected by physical-chemical changes in its environment
8. There are no quantitative changes in me - Body is continuously changing quantitatively
   
   In all my interactions both body and mind are involved. The mind is where the initiation in form of wants/thoughts/desires takes place and the body is the tool with which I express it in the form of action or speech. For e.g I want to meet you. I express this want through my body by sitting in my car, driving it to your place and thus fulfilling it.
   
   If I look at all the acts that I do or all that I speak, I find the same pattern.
   
   There are some functions of my body where I do not play an active role, like breathing, heart beating, body temperature regulation etc These all happen on there own and are controlled by the system(inherent design) of my body.
   
   So, when I am interacting with someone both the components are being used but it’s the mind that gives direction to all my interactions. Similarly I see others.
   
   This knowledge is the basis of my interaction with others, when I am interacting in a relationship then I try to see what is the want/thought/desire behind the persons talk and acts. Since my inputs are restricted to what the person is expressing (through body) I keep looking at my self for interpreting the actions of others.
   
   This leads from the fact that I have this firm belief that all we humans have same inherent design.

STAGES OF RELATIONSHIP

There are five stages to all relationships. All couples move through the different stages at different speeds and will move back and forth from stage to stage but both will predominately be in the same stage at the same time.

1. ROMANCE STAGE

All relationships begin with this stage. The need satisfied here is love and belonging. This stage is characterized by its dream like qualities, fantasies, hopes for the future, the possibilities and the asking of "what if". Everything is wonderful, beautiful, fun and exciting.

Reality is seen through rose coloured glasses or likened to looking into an off focus camera lens. Details are obscure and specifics are not discussed. The pair unfortunately are brain dead! They focus on similarities and do things to please each other. Differences are viewed as bad so are denied. The emphasis is on how to fit and move together and soon they look like they're glued together at the hip. Each will do anything to get along.

You deny part of yourself and the thinking is "Now that I have this other person I am complete and happy." The equation is: half + half = one, you + me = us. This stage is short lived because you cannot be a whole person but the stage does allow for the building of a foundation for the relationship in the future.

Romance allows one to take chances and risks and nurtures a belief that "I can do it". However, real love cannot begin at this stage so paradoxically one must fall out of love to learn to love.

This stage lasts, on the average, two months to two years. Romancing takes up a lot of energy with all the courting and pretensions and trying to be the same and eventually you begin to tire. As well, melding at the hip becomes uncomfortable.

When the cost to your individuality becomes too great you begin trying to change the other person. There is resistance, you try to insist and there is a fight, leading to the next stage of power struggle.

2. POWER STRUGGLE STAGE

The need satisfied now is power and some freedom. There is an awareness now that you are different but the premise remains that differences are bad.

The equation now is you + me = you vs. me. The lens of the camera is now a crystal clear zoom lens and you focus on every minute detail-your differences are magnified. You seem to have nothing in common anymore and everything the other person does is wrong. There is a pulling away from each other, a need for space, a chance to breathe...all of which is quite normal.

This is a critical stage where divorce occurs most frequently and when couples seek counselling, The fight is for boundaries and clearly defining unacceptable bottom line behaviours. The past is acted out in this struggle stage.

You become aware of your quality world, perhaps a lonely road but a necessary one to determine what is really important to you. It is necessary to reclaim yourself as a whole person otherwise you die inside or end up hating your partner. This is necessary to move ahead.

Going deaf is a power struggle syndrome - in anger the tightening of the jaw actually impairs 80% of our hearing ability. The focus in the power struggle stage is on the present and the past. There is a nervousness about the future and some questioning whether there will be one.

There is a need to get the fighting from the past into the present - learn to fight where both win (i.e., use phrases like "I want to talk to you and all I want you to do is listen.") Accept that differences are okay and normal. Learn to be together because of choice not need as in the romance stage.

This stage is a prerequisite to readiness to relate to each other as whole people. See it as a positive one, an opportunity to journey together, to learn how to fight fairly with both winning and to declare one's own individuality and separateness.

It is possible to have one partner still in the romance stage while the other is into the power struggle stage. This can be painful when the one in the romance stage finds that what he or she does for love and belonging leaves the other feeling oppressed (i.e., he brings her flowers which was once okay but now she feels controlled by his actions and reacts by needing even more space).

3. STABILITY STAGE

The need satisfied in this stage is freedom and choice. You are now aware of each others personal world instead of just your own and the difference is okay. It is finally clear you are not going to reshape your partner. Clear boundaries are determined.

The equation is you + me = you and you. There is a sense of loss and a certain sadness at this time as your realise dreams aren't reality. The power struggle was hard and has weathered you. You feel older and wiser. If you had not learned good coping skills as a child the power struggle stage was even harder than it had to be.

This is a resting time. The war is over and it's time to relax. You breath a sigh of relief. The danger at this stage is the couple may start to move apart as each does their own thing. There is a realization that each others paths in life may be different. There may be a feeling of boredom, a sense of not being connected and having nothing in common. The focus is on the present not the future because that is still undecided.

This is the second most common stage for counselling or divorce. At first it feels good to agree to stop changing the other but ii life i s not like that. Life is about growing and changing. The positive aspect is that at this stage you have history and it can be used to advantage. Don't throw away the relationship easily. At this time you either learn mutual respect or you go back to the second stage.

4. COMMITMENT STAGE

This is the only stage where there really is a readiness for marriage though people usually have already married in the romance stage. That's unfortunate because when they reach the power struggle stage they wonder what hit them.

In this stage you are wide awake, making clear choices about yourself and your partner, based both on individual differences and those things you have in common. You see clearly who you are and what you want as well as who your partner is and what they want. This is the only way for a healthy relationship.
The equation now is you + me = you + me + us.

You now choose each other with awareness of past, present and direction to the future. The needs fulfilled here are a balance of love, belonging, fun, power and freedom. You don't need each other, you choose to be with each other.

If one of the pair is in the stability stage and one ready for commitment, the couple will either both remain in stage three or could return to stage two. Both need to be ready for the commitment stage. Though parts of previous stages may reappear there would have been enough work to have developed strategies for dealing with problems.

Living together is probably a stage three without readiness for stage four.

They need to stay in the stability stage until they are ready for commitment and really want to be a team. The statement can now be made to your partner, I choose to love you knowing all I know, good and bad." Getting married after living together can start you back at romance.

5. CO-CREATION STAGE

In this stage you are two people who have decided to be a team moving out into the world. The equation is you + me = you + me + us within the world. This world may include children, a project, a joint business venture, etc.

You move beyond the relationship. The danger at this stage is over involvement with the outside world and relationship being neglected. The relationship must be continually nurtured along the way. There needs to be time for you, for me, for us and for them. This is difficult sometimes and choices must be made.

A test of where you may be in the relationship is: If your spouse and children are away for a while, who gets the first hug upon their return. If it’s the kids then maybe it's time to take a better look at "us"

These stages are not a linear process; it is a circle spiralling upwards so when you hit a certain stage in the power struggle it becomes easier. You retain stages and bring them forward as you grow - you are in one stage or another at any given time with bits of the others. Knowledge of the stages helps movement through them.

Ashok

Relationships - some questions

Let me first start with Jaysha's comment, It is a very good question
that "Why should one Marry?"
What do you think Jaysha,?

I sometimes wonder, is there a need to marry?

Why do relationships go bad?
Two people with all there good intentions and effort start a
relationship with the belief that they will live 'happily ever after'.
Slowly after sometime once the newness has worn off the relationship
starts breaking down, Why?

Is it because the people involved are insincere? Or are humans not
capable of long lasting relationships? Or is it something else?

What do you think?

Relationships: continued

(This is in reponse to the comment on my previous post by a friend)

"So if people are in love there is no relationship?"

What is love? Is it when two people want to spend each and every moment in each others company? Or is it when one wants to share everything in ones life with the partner? Or is it when all your thaughts, dreams and actions are focussed on one person??

To me love is a bit different from all the above, all the above mentioned states are various forms of dependencies only.

Love to me is a state of being between two people when both people can be as they are, there is no put on, no acts, no special consideration, infact it is a state when you are you from the very core of your being and so is your partner and this core which you usually hide from everyone is spontaneously shown to your partner, this is mutual.

Such a state has no insecurities(dependencies).

"Human relations work because of dependency."

You are right thats what we see around us all human relations are working on the basis of dependencies.
And they seem to be working, but the problem is these relations don't last. Infact even while they are going on either of the two partners has some issue troubling them which they keep pushing back so as to make the relation work(comprmise?).

My point is do these "working relations" provide a mutually fullfilling experience, where there is no exploitation of the either participant, where there is no compromises and all acts are voluntary, spontaneous and totally in synch with your being?

So the question is do humans as such want lasting & mutually fullfilling relationships?

To me the answer is a big yes, we all crave for such relationships all the time.

Anushree's response on the same comment

Anonymous, The moment you use the word 'excessive', it means a range of some kind ... whether little or more doesn't really matter. A dependency is ultimately a dependency.

Yes, another thing that matters in relationships is the 'comfort' factor.

And, all relationships are based on 'give and take'. We give something, tangible or intangible, and similarly, we receive something ... again, tangible or intangible. We can only give something when we have it in our kitty; we can't borrow it from anyone. The 'balancing act' happens. And, whenever it doesn't happen or we're unable to 'see' (understand) it, the relationship falls apart.

We always crave for 'lasting relationships' ... Such is human nature, I suppose. It's only when we are able to stand on our own two feet and do not 'lean' .. we can achieve a relationship of equality. I think only relationships based on equality last.

Well, we're all evolving individuals ... change is the very basis of existence.

Just a few of my thoughts/beliefs ... we can always agree to dis-agree, but keep the dialogue going ...

--Posted by anushree to Insights: My worldview at 7/8/2004 02:54:32 PM

What are relationships?

Somebody asked me today what according to me was the reason that why some people are successfull in their relationships of choice and whereas others are not.

To me personally all relationships are between equals, where the status is not equal then it is a dependency. their are three types of dependencies financial, emotional and pyschological.

Financial dependency is when one of the partners is dependent on the other for physical survival for example one could be dependent for money, house, other wealth. Examples of this kind are Parent-Child & Husband-Wife(where only one partner controlling the family wealth) relationships

Emotional dependency is when one of the partners is dependent on the partner in such a way that all happiness comes only in the company of of the partner. Examples of such relationships are persons who are infatuated or "in LOVE", Also young child-Parent relationships.

Pyschological dependency is when one partner is dependent on the other for taking decisions in life, no decissions can be taken without the consent/approval of the other partner. Examples are again most husband-wife relationships, obedient child-Parent relationship.

How does one get into such dependencies when one is always aspiring for relationships?
What I have seen is that in most of the cases where the dependencies come about, the initial attraction was based on very non-lasting factors like physical appearances(attraction), Money, Status, similar interests, common activities (like same work place, same club, same bus) etc. Since these factors are ever changing and by their inherent nature insecurity giving, any attempt to bond on basis of these leads to dependencies only.

So where does one go from here?
I personally feel the minimum qualification to even attempt a relationship is financial, emotional and pyschological independence, once one has achieved these three one can attempt at "recognising" a relationship.

What factors to be made basis for establishing a relationships??
In my opinion the only factor that can become a basis of a lasting, non-restraining relationships is a common aim in life, if two "independent" people come together because their individual aims in life match with each other then and only then can a relationship work.

Mind you this different from making a common goal in life, which lot of people attempt, it is not about leaving your individual agenda to adopt a new one so that a bonding can be formed.

The above is how I look at relationships and if you have a different view or feel can add something to it or totally disagree with my view then do write in and let know.